Not enough credit!

[malc_b]

Well I'm in UK so that's unlikely .

[rubbertail]

As i said - this sort of thing was generalized.... but i have no real idea on the situation elsewhere. It's just not very likely that the wavelength is completely free for everyone to use how he or she would like to.

[chapelhill]

Not sure if the 1% rule was properly thought out with two way communication as you would expect differing rule for cube than from radiator valves. I have been running single cube on the arm version of the cul software since it came out and using standard cube before that.

The cul firmware version wins hands down as it is reliable and you can see what the problem is.

Credits mainly becomes a problem when one of the devices gets some form of rf error which results in resending of data which consumes credit and this is perhaps why the rules were instigated.

Since the system stores the messages until there is credit availsble the messages should get through.

In dealing with rf error normally requires a factory reset of oroblem device and then resend schedule and any non standard settings. I think these rf errors are related to device associations but I need ro do some more experimentation to test now I have found way if tracking credit left more accurately.

I have a version of software which puts max credit to 3000 instead of 900 but still only starts with the default on boot 450 units so does not break 1% rule over an hour but just stores more up. If needed I can change speed of credit return based on led setting by factor of 2 or 3.

[malc_b]

I found the max cube original firmware would use up 1% and then wait 1 hour before sending any messages.  That is just usable.  Waiting 1hr to change the thermostat......

CUL fw looks to be better from what I can see as it adds back credits rather than waiting 1hr.

FYI as I live in the country then I don't see my going over the 1% limit as a problem (and I'm not sure if it is a legal limit in UK).  There is very little around I'm likely to interfere with, and as this is 1% per device then I could have multiple devices in my house and have the same effect.  Really the cube should be near unlimited and the radiator valves etc. have the 1% limit, or at least a 1% per device limit.  That's the same as having say 50 separate remote control devices.  Maybe culfw should have multiple rf ids so it can switch ids when it communicates with different max devices.  That would keep it "legal" at least as far as anyone monitoring could see .

[fruit]

If it is a question why this 1% rule is to be set: It's a legal issue as much as an interference one. In Germany at least, the 1% rule is written down in law. Of course, if noone is actually checking you might be fine, but if at some point one of the radio testers of the Bundesnetzagentur rings at your door and confiscates your equipment you probably have upset one of your neighbours.

Afaik these rules were generalized in Europe at least.

They do apply to the UK as well of course. I have come across the regs a coupe of times but they are nowhere where one would expect to find them from what I remember.

A long time a go in the days of the GPO (General Post Office, now Royal Mail and BT) there was a service affectionately known as 'Tinkerbell' who would trace and search out signals just like Bundesnetzagentur above I guess.
I am sure that service still exists in the UK but probably privatised - and with big fines to pay for it all!

[malc_b]

It is ofcom that regulates this.  I would imagine that the department tasked with radio interference investigation has larger concerns than SRDs in the licence free band.  The EU regulation is ESTI EN 300 220 which does say 1% limit.  However, Ofcom IR_2030 (IR2030/1/16 2010/0168/UK Oct 2010) says

"Techniques to access spectrum and mitigate interference that provide at least equivalent performance to the techniques described in harmonised standards adopted under Directive 1999/5/EC must be used. Alternatively a duty cycle limit of 1 % may be used."

Which is a more practical approach and more relaxed than EN 300 220.  I would argue that I could easily take steps to mitigate any interference, but that's specific to my location.  However, since there would be no difference between one cube running at say 3% and 3 cubes running at 1% then the one 3% cube meets the "equivalent performance" requirement.  That's especially when implemented as a x3 credit return which would give a 1% burst followed by another 1% followed by another 1% burst, in a 1 hour period.  That's the same as 3 cubes and synchronized to give even gaps too which is less interfering that 3 separate cubes which might generate a 3% burst.

[alangward]

I was interested to read above that there is an ARM version of the CUL software that can be flashed to a CUBE.
Can someone point me at where I might find this.

Thanks
Alan

[malc_b]

The thread is here

https://forum.fhem.de/index.php/topic,38404.0.html

it's mostly in german so you need google translate if you don't speak german.  I find chrome with the translate addin works best, the you can just right click and select translate to english if it doesn't happen automatically.  The first post has the main details but it is a bit sparse.  Post #28 has a docx with some helpful info in the post and especially in the attached docx.  Note that the latest (1.23.05) precompiled binaries on mediafire does NOT have the bootloader in it.  You need to look back through the older versions to find that (I think latest is 1.20.08).  The directory you want is CUBe of course.

NOTE not all Cubes have the right hardware and flashing is a one way street.  You can't restore the max firmware.

[medolino2009]

I have done some tests with my cube and I think this is working but use at your own risk and comply with your local laws.
Rather than trying to stop the limits I have tried to return the credits back slightly faster depending on LED mode so we can adjust and could adjust dynamically using functions too.

NOTE You must set the led to off for normal operation and the cube boots with LED mode flashing which is 2. Use this in FHEM web
   Set culdevicename led 00

I could not find way to set mode to off for first boot.

credit10ms return is normal 1 credit per second with LED off
credit10ms return is 2 credits per second with LED ON
credit10ms return is 3 credit per second with LED flashing.

Based off version 1_23_02

Problem I have is with so many devices the backgound normal messaging uses most of the available credits so any updates can take a long time before being actioned. It does not require much extra to get to a reasonable level which is very similar to running two cubes side by side.

Hallo,

first of thank you very much for this firmware...i flashed it on my Cube and it is working together with Pimatic... My question is about credits... My Power LED flash every second... what this means with credits ? I have 6 thermostats and credits are very very annoying... Is it possible to remove credits completely or make highest credits per hour possible ... would you be kind to make binary firmware for Cube with this possibility please ?

Thank you in advance

Best regards

Miki (NL)

[alangward]

Hi Malc_b
By looking around I had found some of the stuff on updating the Cube to a 'CUL'.
But I couldn't find the bootloader so you post has been very helpful.

Thanks,
Alan

[chapelhill]

Hallo,

first of thank you very much for this firmware...i flashed it on my Cube and it is working together with Pimatic... My question is about credits... My Power LED flash every second... what this means with credits ? I have 6 thermostats and credits are very very annoying... Is it possible to remove credits completely or make highest credits per hour possible ... would you be kind to make binary firmware for Cube with this possibility please ?

Thank you in advance

Best regards

Miki (NL)

Hi When led is off credits return at a rate of 1 per second, when led is on all the time credits return at 2 per second, when led is flashing credits return at 3 per second.

The formula I have is credits return at 1 + (led setting*2).
This could be changed to any number so that credits return faster than can be consumed but personally I would have thought a setting of a factor  of 10 would be the maximum given that we should have some limits in place.

I found that credits is usually a problem when there is a device with a problem causing retransmissions.

I prefer to run with 3000 credit limit and leave credit return at 1 per second. I can put all radiators (approx. 20) into eco mode without running out of credits and vice versa.If I want to change schedules for many radiators then that would be an instance of setting led to flashing so that credit returns faster just whilst I am doing it and set it back to standard once complete.

I don't have access to my code this week, but could send you another version with higher factor if you want at the weekend.

[medolino2009]

Hi When led is off credits return at a rate of 1 per second, when led is on all the time credits return at 2 per second, when led is flashing credits return at 3 per second.

The formula I have is credits return at 1 + (led setting*2).
This could be changed to any number so that credits return faster than can be consumed but personally I would have thought a setting of a factor  of 10 would be the maximum given that we should have some limits in place.

I found that credits is usually a problem when there is a device with a problem causing retransmissions.

I prefer to run with 3000 credit limit and leave credit return at 1 per second. I can put all radiators (approx. 20) into eco mode without running out of credits and vice versa.If I want to change schedules for many radiators then that would be an instance of setting led to flashing so that credit returns faster just whilst I am doing it and set it back to standard once complete.

I don't have access to my code this week, but could send you another version with higher factor if you want at the weekend.

Thank you so much for your answer... you are greatest...

I have 6 radiators... i have rules for getting real temperature from them... this cost many credits as you know... thats why i need higher limit... and yes...i have one radiator thermostat that don't get data sometimes...not sure why is that...when i reset pimatic (or max cube) it is ok again... but when it is not ok, and when it is not responding...i am getting transmission error....this cost also credits....

Flashing LED you mean Power LED right ? (Battery LED is always ON here)... This seeting i can't change trough Pimatic i think right ? (i shuld have FHEM there for or i didn't understand right ?)

I really look forward to get from you firmware with much higher credit limit (3000 as you say shuld be ok i think)...  (Shuld i send you my email adres in Private message so you can send it this way, or you going to post it in here )

Thank you so much...

Best regards

Miki (NL)

[malc_b]

The led mode can be set in fhem.  Just look at the set ... dropdown for the cube device.

Actually I think the led_mode variable can be set to any single hex digit, not just 0,1,2.  So I think set led 15 in fhem cube device would return 16 credits per second.

[chapelhill]

The led mode can be set in fhem.  Just look at the set ... dropdown for the cube device.

Actually I think the led_mode variable can be set to any single hex digit, not just 0,1,2.  So I think set led 15 in fhem cube device would return 16 credits per second.

Very good suggestion, although I am not sure what led would do, but it probably would not flash, would have to modify the code to deal with greater or equal to 2 rather than equal to 2 for flashing mode.

[medolino2009]

The led mode can be set in fhem.  Just look at the set ... dropdown for the cube device.

Actually I think the led_mode variable can be set to any single hex digit, not just 0,1,2.  So I think set led 15 in fhem cube device would return 16 credits per second.

Hallo

Thank you for suggestion, but i don use fhem....i use Pimatic and maxcul plugin... i don´t think it is possible to do this with this plugin...
Best solution for me would be what Chapelhill suggested in last post... to put credit limit always very high up in firmware (to 3000 or more per hour)... in dit case i don´t need to ¨look at it every couple hours¨ ... at this moment in my system biggest drawback is Max Cube because of this Credit problems... i bought 4 more thermostats, but can´t use them because of this...

So i am patiently waiting for another firmware from Chapelhill 

Best regards

Miki (NL)