THZ / LWZ Tecalor Stiebel Eltron Heizung

[micomat]

okay i can wait

[willybauss]

There's an additive offset in heatSetTemp when THZ switches between winter and summer mode.

[immi]

Hi Willi
thanks for the hint:
can you see it from logfiles the offset SOmmer/Winter ?

p.s. nice plot

immi

[micomat]

added 0.091 info to wiki

[willybauss]

Hi Willi
thanks for the hint:
can you see it from logfiles the offset SOmmer/Winter ?

p.s. nice plot

immi

Don't understand the question. All values shown in the plots are comming out of Mythz.log. So if the plot shows a bump, this bump is also avl. in the logged data of course.

I'm not aware of a THZ parameter defining a bump of xy°C when switching between summer and winter mode.

[houseowner123]

I am starting to collect lots of data from THZ.pm
I am trying to understand better the heatpump: therefore I looked at the relation between HCx_heat-set_temp as f(Outside_tempFiltered).
I made some fitting and came to the following preliminary results.
Negletcting the FLOW-Proportion parameter and RoomInfluence parameter

Code Auswählen Erweitern


HCx_heat-set_temp: =  a  + b * Outside_tempFiltered +  c * Outside_tempFiltered^2
where
a=1,5 + wantedRoomTemperature * 1,3
b=-10 * p13GradientHC1 / wantedRoomTemperature
c=-0,01


please feel free to contribute to the discussion.
find enclosed the fitted data
immi

Hi immi,

1. I find it useful to understand how LWZ/THZ works. The more we know, the better we recognize when something is out of the ordenary.
2. I misss in your equation the foot point. I am assuming it is the 1,5 value which defines a
3. Room influence could look like this (wanted_roomtemp/measured_roomtemp). This factor would come as additional parameter into b and c
4. What does "Fireplace" Kamin do? Temperature- or only ventilation-related?
5. Suggestion: Heating curve settings change dramatically between 0-10°C and -10°-0°C outside temp range. With parameters we already have, only could implement 2 different heatcurves, based on these ranges?
6. Is there another way to get actual room temperature feedback into mythz from another module? I don't want to by FEZ. But I use my fireplace quite often during winter time and I hate to see the THZ working hard at night, when it is already 25°C in house.

Thanks,
Tom

[immi]

Don't understand the question. All values shown in the plots are comming out of Mythz.log. So if the plot shows a bump, this bump is also avl. in the logged data of course.
I'm not aware of a THZ parameter defining a bump of xy°C when switching between summer and winter mode.

I wanted to know if you could estimate the bump: 5°K 10°K.... I am always in summermode
immi

[immi]

Hi Tom

2. I misss in your equation the foot point. I am assuming it is the 1,5 value which defines a

1.5 is not foot point; it came from the interpolation of the 3 curves; at the time, my footpoit is 0; For footpoint, I assume a vertical offset; but not tested.

3. Room influence could look like this (wanted_roomtemp/measured_roomtemp). This factor would come as additional parameter into b and c

I neglected it, in order to reduce the unknons. If you have time, take your logged data and fit some curves. It would be helpfull.

4. What does "Fireplace" Kamin do? Temperature- or only ventilation-related?

I have no idea, I expect only vent.

Code Auswählen Erweitern

5. Suggestion: Heating curve settings change dramatically between 0-10°C and -10°-0°C outside temp range. With parameters we already have, only could implement 2 different heatcurves, based on these ranges?
I try to use a simple model with no anomaly (discontinuity); otherwise further optimization will need numerical methods hard to use.

6. Is there another way to get actual room temperature feedback into mythz from another module? I don't want to by FEZ. But I use my fireplace quite often during winter time and I hate to see the THZ working hard at night, when it is already 25°C in house.

Sure: I have enocean thermostate in each room; you can use other sensors supported by fhem.
At the beginning I used  "Notify" on a threshold of the thermostate read by FHEM.
Then I disabled it, because when the thermostate detects the temp-increase (ca 20 min after fireplace heating), it is too late.
I want to change the  pXX-values 2 hours before settig fire to the fireplace.

immi

[micomat]

Thermostat? what Thermostat do you use?

[immi]

Hi Markus
one ThermokonSR04 per room
http://www.thermokon.de/EN/easysens-31/sr04--room-sensors-and-operating-units-temperature.html

immi

[micomat]

and you can read them with fhem?
i'm thinking about the new homematic thermostat in combination with an actuator instead of my "dumb" thermostats.

[willybauss]

6. Is there another way to get actual room temperature feedback into mythz from another module? I don't want to by FEZ. But I use my fireplace quite often during winter time and I hate to see the THZ working hard at night, when it is already 25°C in house.

Simply check the installation manual  (can be downloaded from tecalor) on how to install an external sensor. See attached screen dump. Order a cheap PT1000 and some cable, install it, use it.


Using this one instead of fhem driven thermo sensors will keep the THZ's reliability even in case of server defects, SW issues etc. as already stated a few days ago.

[willybauss]

I wanted to know if you could estimate the bump: 5°K 10°K.... I am always in summermode
immi

bump is not always same, but always in the range of 1.2 ... 1.5°C.

[immi]

and you can read them with fhem?
i'm thinking about the new homematic thermostat in combination with an actuator instead of my "dumb" thermostats.

I use the enocean thermostates to control the temperature in each room, without FHEM and THZ; I have additional actuators for each room.

Enocean is supported in fhem
In parallel, I read all my thermostates for monitoring in FHEM, as you see in pdf attached in my previous post « Antwort #399 am: Heute um 20:09:04 »

If FHEM crashes nothing happens; It just stops monitoring.
immi

[immi]

bump is not always same, but always in the range of 1.2 ... 1.5°C.

strange I expected more

one more thing...
I uploaded V0.093 tomorrow you can update..
changelog:

I added a plot of the quadratic curve neglecting summer/winter, FLOW-Proportion parameter and RoomInfluence parameter.
Using your settings of HC1, it computes the curve. The actual value is shown in red.
Look at the picture below.
you can test the plot like this:

Code Auswählen Erweitern


define wl_hr2 weblink htmlCode <div class="SVGplot"><embed src="/fhem/THZ_PrintcurveSVG/" type="image/svg+xml"  name="wl_hr2"/></div> <a href="/fhem?detail=wl_hr2">wl_hr2</a><br>
attr wl_hr2 room heatpump


p.s. please Markus do not document in the wik this versioni; I do not know if I will leave the plot in  future version.

immi