THZ / LWZ Tecalor Stiebel Eltron Heizung

[immi]

Hi Markus
is it on the line more or less?
if not post your plot and all your relevant pXX
thanks
immi

[willybauss]

doesn't fit at all, see attachment. Reason is most probably a factor of 10 in reading P14, which is 1.5°C, but the graph says 15°C. The offset btw. red dot and green curve fits to the difference.

[micomat]

it's perfectly on the line all the time
sometimes a liiiiittle below but who cares?

thanks

[willybauss]

after correctiion of factor 10 in source code it fits much better, but still not good. Reason might be that I use  the inside temp sensor additionally, influencing the heat curve by 50%. Current room temperature is 23.5°C, while inside temp set is 21.5°C.

I don't expect you to work on this, since I'm obviously the only one having this setup, and since it's not really beneficial for me.

edit:

After a look on the graphical heat curve in the THZ display I can confirm that your green curve fits very well to it - since this curve doesn't consider inside temp as well. 

Additionally I'd like to take this chance to vote for installing an inside temp sensor. As you can see, without an  inside temp sensor the heatpump would start to heat up soon, not considering that the inside temp is still much too high. The red dot shows clearly that the inside temp sensor cares about this fact and pulls the curve down by almost 5 degrees. This definitely saves a lot of energy with very limited effort ... ...

[willybauss]

and here is the result when I set the room influence to 0% - fits the curve almost perfect

[micomat]

my room Influence is always 0%

[lwzler]

it's perfectly on the line all the time
sometimes a liiiiittle below but who cares?

Same for me 

[immi]

Dear all thanks for the feedback

Hi Willy
>>> after correctiion of factor 10 in source code it ..
Where have you corrected it; you have probably an older version version, please check
I fixed p14LowEndHC1 one or two version ago.
Just checked and works fine
update and don't forget to restart.

My target (and I think yours) is to save energy in winter and keep an avarage of 21.5 degree in livingroom.
In order to save energy, I want to try to keep the HCheatSetTemp as low as possible (Carnot theorem rules) for having maximum theoretical efficiency.

I find also interesting that you are using 0.26 as gradient.
The guy installing the system has set 0.4 for me.
I never changed it, because I have never understood really what it did.
I expect that only knowing how the system reacts to external-temp, I can chose a better value for next winter.

Immi

[micomat]

i use gradient of 0.2 and 3k low end? interesting

[willybauss]

Code Auswählen Erweitern

##############################################
# 00_THZ
# $Id: 00_THZ.pm 5772 2014-05-06 22:27:21Z immiimmi $
# by immi 05/2014
# v. 0.095
#

... row 1256:
my $p14LowEnDHC1 =0.1 * (split ' ',ReadingsVal("Mythz","p14LowEnDHC1",0))[0];



You're partially right:  p14LowEnDHC1 reports 1.5K, but nevertheless the value inside the heating curve was 15 before I corrected it, see attached screen shot in my answer

Code Auswählen Erweitern

Antwort #466 am: Heute um 19:35:05 .

Should I make the red arrow even bigger? 

[willybauss]

My target (and I think yours) is to save energy in winter and keep an avarage of 21.5 degree in livingroom.
In order to save energy, I want to try to keep the HCheatSetTemp as low as possible (Carnot theorem rules) for having maximum theoretical efficiency.

I find also interesting that you are using 0.26 as gradient.
The guy installing the system has set 0.4 for me.
I never changed it, because I have never understood really what it did.
I expect that only knowing how the system reacts to external-temp, I can chose a better value for next winter.

Immi

So you take a huge effort in fhem but obviously missed the basic rule for energy saving, which should have been the first step. You should make a hydraulic adjustment of your whole heating system, fixing the throughput of all pipes to really necessary values. And before that you have to obsolete all your room thermostats, so that the heat flow is no more restricted anywhere. So finally the heat pump just produces the heat which is *really* needed. By having a heating curve set by accident and fix it with room thermostats you loose up to 40% of energy. I did so too in first winter, ending up in approx. 3800kWh per year and 130 hours of booster usage. Second winter - after first iteration of above mentioned changes - I endet up in 3000kWh and 5 hours booster, in last winter (which was not so cold) it tends to 2500kWh without booster at all. All values without any solar collectors on my roof.

I simply bought a ton of cheap digital thermometers, distributed them all over the house, opened all heating circles (remove thermostat heads or set them to 30°C) and then adjusted the flow values of all circles so that all rooms had same temperature. Since this temperature was much too high of course I began reducing the heat curve and its offset, until all rooms had 21.5°C without using room thermostats at all. Adjusting the 0.26 value of the heating curve simply ensures that your 21.5°C are kept always, no matter how warm or cold it'soutside. It basically reflects the heat loss of your building. The better the isolation, the lowe the value.

[micomat]

my booster was Never used. Not even at -15C.

[houseowner123]

@ immi: even after update there is no red dot.  Because 8 °C is below the scale. Other than that, love the new readings! Thanks so much

(http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/screenshot201e2u6ixvgzd.png)

@ willybaus: the new inside temp probe arrive today and I installed it and ..it works. So the PT1000 is really just for the solar collector for the inside you need KTY 81-210 cable.
The reading is not 100% correct but as for the outside sensor, there is an option to correct the reading. Thanks again for the suggestion. Just need to rewire and extended the cable from the basement to the kitchen/living room but this should not be a problem. FHEM THZ reading under sGlobal works nicely. 

Tom

[willybauss]

The reading is not 100% correct but as for the outside sensor, there is an option to correct the reading.

Hi Tom,


if you don't succeed with the correction in this way (like it was im my case because of additional display in living room) let me know. I had to correct it by a user reading

Code Auswählen Erweitern


inside_temp:sGlobal {((split ' ',ReadingsVal("Mythz","sGlobal",0))[81]) - 0.6 }



Willy

[willybauss]

my booster was Never used. Not even at -15C.

that sounds reasonable, since you have a heating curve value of just 0.2. Let me know about the outside wall isolation (cross section of your walls) please.