THZ / LWZ Tecalor Stiebel Eltron Heizung

[willybauss]

Willy, why Not? you can change the Set temps depending on the measurement of the hms100tf

As I already statet weeks ago I'll never ever implement a solution which needs to rely on a series of low budget items instead of the double digit mtbf of the THZ's own control:

And finally I'd like to let you know why I don't want to rely on fhem to do things instead of Tecalor's THZ control. Reason is simply reliability. I'll never ever replace the THZ control with it's double digit year MTBF against a sequence of cheap consumer parts like raspberryPi (using flash card as mass storage), low budget chinese power supply, LAN switch (again with  low budget chinese power supply), PowerLAN-adapters, USB-RS232-adapter etc. My goal is to minimize risk. If I can influence what the THZ does by still relying on its own control I'll do it. But I don't e.g. use fhem switch to manual mode for a while in order to heat up water. If during this period of time one of the affected components dies, or a fhem command of a different unit hangs up for any reason, the THZ will never go back into automatic mode. Worst case I'm on vacation far away from home and can't do anything beside checking how it goes wrong.
Second goal is that the solution doesn't need to rely on myself. If I'm not at home and anything goes wrong it must be enough for my wife to simply remove the RS232 cable from the THZ and the THZ goes on working as if there would never have been a cable. So a service technician can do his job without any problems, no matter if I'm accessible or not.

As soon as fhem hangs for any reason your solution will stop working - no matter if you're at home or thousands of kilometers away.

[willybauss]

Hi Willy
no idea because I do not have the hardware to test it
have a look in register E8; just uncomment line 273.
Heat up your living room display and read again E8

or maybe someone can lend you an oscilloscope and you can look at the can-bus of the display
immi

No success with sAllE8  . I can't find a relation between inside temp and the values. But there seems to be a relation between some of the read parameters and passive cooling mode. The last reading in the list is with passive cooling type 1 active, the other ones not.

Code Auswählen Erweitern

24,7°C - 2014-05-21_15:18:06 Mythz sAllE8: 77E8020001F73E0001914E00021ACB0001B39200000000000000000E101F19005100651B2200 x04: 512 x08: 503 x12: 15872 x16: 401 x20: 19968 x24: 538 x28: -13568 x32: 435 x36: -28160 x40: 0 x44: 0 x48: 0 x52: 14 x52: 4127 x60d: 6400 x64: 20736 x68: 25883 x72: 8704
25,7°C - 2014-05-21_15:22:29 Mythz sAllE8: 76E8020001F73E0001914E00021ACB0001B39200000000000000000E101E19005100651B2200 x04: 512 x08: 503 x12: 15872 x16: 401 x20: 19968 x24: 538 x28: -13568 x32: 435 x36: -28160 x40: 0 x44: 0 x48: 0 x52: 14 x52: 4126 x60d: 6400 x64: 20736 x68: 25883 x72: 8704
24,2°C - 2014-05-21_21:10:47 Mythz sAllE8: 75E8020001F73E0001914E00021ACB0001B39200000000000000000E101D19005100651B2200 x04: 512 x08: 503 x12: 15872 x16: 401 x20: 19968 x24: 538 x28: -13568 x32: 435 x36: -28160 x40: 0 x44: 0 x48: 0 x52: 14 x52: 4125 x60d: 6400 x64: 20736 x68: 25883 x72: 8704
24,6°C - 2014-05-21_21:17:40 Mythz sAllE8: 08E8020001F73E0001914E00021ACB0001B39200000000000000000E10002100000065003600 x04: 512 x08: 503 x12: 15872 x16: 401 x20: 19968 x24: 538 x28: -13568 x32: 435 x36: -28160 x40: 0 x44: 0 x48: 0 x52: 14 x52: 4096 x60d: 8448 x64: 0 x68: 25856 x72: 13824


[immi]

hi willi
allE8 looks like some vent speed.
you have to spy the can-bus if you want to understand more
immi

[willybauss]

thanks for the hint. Can bus spying wouldn't be a problem. I could borrow any kind of oszilloscop from my company, but that's too much effort for such a detail as long as an easy workaround exists (use the inside temp value from sGlobal, measured with external sensor). I'll spend my free time differently in more efficient way.

[Jakl]

cheapest way for measuring inside temp with THZ (!) is an external sensor, connected via a 2 wire cable.

both sensors are inside the control panel which you don't have. me not either, so i installes the HMS100TF using a CUL868 for this measurings.yep, they are coming from the system itself.for the 303 i guess

Thank you Markus, thank you willybauss, I think I will go with the external sensor connected with the LWZ/THZ directly. So I can use the advantage (and event if it is just a little advantage) of the influence of the heating curve. I think I already have one external sensor from stiebel eltron in my basement, but it was not installed with the heat-pump.

As I already statet weeks ago I'll never ever implement a solution which needs to rely on a series of low budget items instead of the double digit mtbf of the THZ's own control:

As soon as fhem hangs for any reason your solution will stop working - no matter if you're at home or thousands of kilometers away.

@willybauss: I agree. But from my point of view, the weak point is FHEM. Not the used devices.

[willybauss]

So I can use the advantage (and event if it is just a little advantage) of the influence of the heating curve. I think I already have one external sensor from stiebel eltron in my basement, but it was not installed with the heat-pump.

In my case it's a big advantage. After having made a perfect hydraulic adjustment I do no more have any inefficient room thermostats. So I can save lots of unnecessary heating costs by telling the THZ that the inside temp is already reached, thus no heating necessary. This is especially the case at nights after sunny days, when the sun heated up the house through my bis southern oriented windows. Without inside temp sensor the THZ would heat up the underfloor heating anyway, just based on the assumption that cold outside temp requires inside heating as well.

@willybauss: I agree. But from my point of view, the weak point is FHEM. Not the used devices.

I agree. The more features you add to your fhem config, the higher the risk that anything blocks the rest. Since fhem is single threaded there's not really a way out.
But nevertheless: in my long live I saw lots of dead hard disks, power supplies, ... Since it's a long chain of such devices, the risk is much higher than having just one single THZ control.

[micomat]

hey immi,

when setting the system from automatic to DHW-Mode, do i have to enter the digit for DHW-Mode or the text DHW-Mode? If it is the digit, could we implement some kind of translation from digit to text and vice versa in the set-list?

Markus

[houseowner123]

Hi markus,

you have to enter the word: DHWmode

Tom

[micomat]

ok needed this info for the Wiki

[immi]

v0.099
- room-influence has been included in the simulation curve plot.
- Willi noticed an incosistency in the plot: to make it short:
in wintermode roomSetTemp (from  sHC1) is given from p01RoomTempDayHC1  and  p02RoomTempNightHC1   
in summermode roomSetTemp (from  sHC1) is given from  p01RoomTempDayHC1SummerMode and  p02RoomTempNightHC1SummerMode

The last 2 parameters are not documented in the manuals. Their behaviour has been confirmed empirically.
The same is valid for HC2.

After some days of observation, I can add something which in the manual it was not so clear fo me.

Passive cooling mode is activated if  p75passiveCooling>=1 and if the outside temperature is 3 K above the set-room-temperature for at least two hours and if the outside temperature then drops 3K below the set-room-temperature.   

My question was  what is set-room-temp?
p01RoomTempDayHC1  and  p02RoomTempNightHC1 are the one connected to the activation of cooling mode.

this is only valid if no inside room temperature sensor is installed.

if confirmed by someone, info is wiki relevant
immi

[willybauss]

I was aware of it; therefore I did not advertize too much on it. I am fighting on this and on Partytime.
UnschedVent and maybe Partytime are a combination of a flag somewhere and the registers I found.
I have an idea; but quite risky, because I am debugging from VPN. In 2 weeks I will have a look.
p.s. there are many more eggs to find.

Any news on this topic?

[michaelk68]

Hi,

I have a problem with the reading of inside temp and the rel_humitidy.
from the the logs I see, that it's not read.
"5-23_08:25:02 Mythz sGlobal: outsideTemp: 11.7 flowTemp: 29.5 returnTemp: 24.6 hotGasTemp: 38.4 dhwTemp: 47.1 flowTempHC2: 21.1 evaporatorTemp: 23.5 condenserTemp: 25.2 mixerOpen: 0 mixerClosed: 0 heatPipeValve: 0 diverterValve: 0 dhwPump: 0 heatingCircuitPump: 0 solarPump: 0 compressor: 0 boosterStage3: 0 boosterStage2: 0 boosterStage1: 0 highPressureSensor: 0 lowPressureSensor: 1 evaporatorIceMonitor: 0 signalAnode: 0 rvuRelease: 1 ovenFireplace: 0 STB: 0 outputVentilatorPower: 40 inputVentilatorPower: 43 mainVentilatorPower: 0 outputVentilatorSpeed: 32 inputVentilatorSpeed: 36 mainVentilatorSpeed: 0 outside_tempFiltered: 16.5 relHumidity: 0 dewPoint: 883 P_Nd: 8.83 P_Hd: 8.95 actualPower_Qc: 0 actualPower_Pel: 0 collectorTemp: -60 insideTemp: -60
2014-0"

On the THZ display under "ISTWERTE->HK2 Raumtemperatur und HK2 Luftfeuchtigkeit there are the right values!
How can I read these values?

Micha

[willybauss]

Do you have an external sensor for inside temperature and/or a second display connected via CAN bus to the heatpump? Otherwise it's impossible.

[michaelk68]

I have a second display in the living room, which is to HC2 assigned.

[willybauss]

For debugging purposes please try to assign the 2nd display to HC1. I would expect valid humidity values to be available in sGlobal afterwards. I don't know how you can read HC2 based values. Might be that immi can give you a hint on how to find it out yourself by reading new parameters.

I'm unsure if you'll get valid inside temperature values from the second display, even if assigned to HC1. As I stated above (anytime this week)  - at least in my case -  the  inside temperature value of sGlobal is read from the separate external temperature sensor only.

Please report the result of this experiment here, no matter if it ends successfully or not. At least I am very interrested in such results, since up to now I've been the only one here having a second display and an external sensor.